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CHUCK TODD:
This Sunday, the struggling Biden presidency.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
I know we have a historic economic framework.
CHUCK TODD:
President Biden downsizes his social spending deal.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:No one got everything they wanted, including me. That's what compromise is.
CHUCK TODD:
But progressives still resist: no vote on infrastructure without a firm deal on their priorities.
REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL:
Look, the first step is we got to see the legislation.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
What you don't want to see is the infrastructure bill passed, and then not have the kind of Build Back Better bill that we need.
CHUCK TODD:
Plus, our new NBC News poll. Sinking numbers for President Biden on competence, handling a crisis and most importantly, the economy. The president's fellow Democrats are taking a hit, too. I'll talk to former Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe--
TERRY McAULIFFE:
We got less than a week to go for you to bring this baby home for me.
CHUCK TODD:
-- whose hopes of winning back his old job are now in serious danger. And I'll be joined by Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm about the president's agenda and his troubles. Also: Fighting phony claims of voter fraud.
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
It's not healthy for American democracy.
CHUCK TODD:
With a majority of Republicans saying Joe Biden's election was not legitimate.
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
They said there were 66,000 underage voters. Thousands of unregistered voters that voted. There weren't any of those.
CHUCK TODD:
I'll talk to Georgia's Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, who's written a new book about how he resisted President Trump's pressure to overturn Mr. Biden's Georgia win. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Chief White House correspondent Kristen Welker, Democratic pollster Cornell Belcher, Anna Palmer, founder of Punchbowl News and Republican strategist Brad Todd. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history. This is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd.CHUCK TODD:
Good Sunday morning. Happy Halloween. We have a brand new NBC News poll out this morning that's filled with some scary news for the Democrats. The overarching message: Americans have lost their confidence in President Biden and their optimism for the country, at least, they have right now. Just 22% of adults say we're headed in the right direction. A shocking 71% say we're on the wrong track and that includes a near majority of Democrats who are saying that. President Biden's approval rating stands at a dismal 42%, versus 54% who disapprove. Believe it or not, just two months ago, Mr. Biden was in positive territory -- 49% approving and 48% disapproving. So, what's pulling down the president's numbers? Well look at his set of numbers: just 37% say he has the ability right now to handle a crisis, versus nearly a majority who say he does not. Thirty-seven percent also say he's competent and effective as president. Fifty percent disagree with that description. What's more, Republicans, believe it or not, have double-digit leads in dealing with border security, inflation, crime, national security, the economy and -- shockingly -- on getting things done. Democrats hold generally smaller double-digit leads on dealing with climate change, the coronavirus, education and abortion, and that’s really it right now. It's not clear yet whether any deal struck by Democrats on the social spending and infrastructure bills will nudge Mr. Biden's numbers back into positive territory, or whether the damage to his reputation is more of a scar than a bruise. But this much is clear: about the only good news for Mr. Biden and the Democrats in this poll is that the midterm elections aren't for another year.
REPORTER:
Mr. President, do you have the support of all Democrats?
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
I think we're going to be in good shape.
CHUCK TODD:
President Biden - struggling at home, now facing allies in Europe without the political victory he had been hoping for. The 18-point Republican edge on handling of the economy is fueled by economic pessimism -- 79% call the economy fair or poor. Just 41% of Democrats believe the country is headed in the right direction - down 23 points since April. And Republicans are up by 13 points on being effective and getting things done -- a number likely driven by the messy, public debate over Biden's social spending plans, which has exposed ideological divisions in the Democratic Party. On Thursday:
PRES. JOE BIDEN
After months of tough and thoughtful negotiations, I think we have an historic -- I know we have a historic economic framework.
CHUCK TODD:
But despite President Biden's last minute trip to Capitol Hill, his departure delayed to nail down a deal, he left for Europe without one.
REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL:
Too many no votes for the BIF to pass today.
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ:
We need a little more than an IOU.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Clearly, to my mind, it has some major gaps in it.
CHUCK TODD:
The revised $1.75 trillion dollar social spending plan includes funding to tackle the climate crisis, for universal pre-k, eldercare and a one-year extension of the expanded child tax credit.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
No one got everything they wanted, including me, but that's what compromise is. That's consensus.
CHUCK TODD:
But so far the bill is primarily being defined by what's not in it: Tuition-free community college, a broad expansion of Medicare, lower prescription drug prices, and paid family and medical leave, which Biden pleaded for just over a week ago.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
We're one of the few industrial countries in the world that doesn't have paid leave.
SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND:
If paid leave is not in the bill, it would be devastating. It would be devastating for working women and working parents.
CHUCK TODD:
On Tuesday in Virginia - Biden's agenda will get its first political test at the polls --
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
Hello, Virginia!
CHUCK TODD:
-- according to a Washington Post-Schar School poll - the governor's race, in a state Biden won by 10 points, is a pure toss-up.
TERRY McAULIFFE:
Bring this baby home for me.
GLENN YOUNGKIN:
We're going to send a shockwave across this country.
VIRGINIA RESIDENT:
Certainly not everything going on in the White House right now is going smoothly. There’s no argument about that, but I don't think taking a step backward with Youngkin is the right way to go.
VIRGINIA RESIDENT:
Look at the country, look at the president. People are tired, they want change.
CHUCK TODD:Glenn Youngkin has successfully seized on cultural issues with a campaign centered on education - which voters call their top issue - through the lens of parental grievance.
GLENN YOUNGKIN:
We will not teach our children to view everything through a lens of race.
TERRY McAULIFFE:
He's bringing his personal culture wars into our classrooms.
CHUCK TODD:
Former President Trump will headline a tele-rally Monday night for Youngkin, who has carefully walked the line - accepting his endorsement, while attempting to distance himself personally.
GARY GRUMBACH:
Would you rally with Donald Trump if he came to Virginia this week?
GLENN YOUNGKIN:
Well, he's not coming.
CHUCK TODD:
Joining me now is someone the White House says can tell us inside the room where these spending bills are still being negotiated. It is Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm. Secretary Granholm, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
Thank you, glad to be on.
CHUCK TODD:
So here we are, it's the second time in a month that we've gone through this drama on Capitol Hill. The administration ended up balking again with Progressives. He goes to to Capitol Hill, delays his trip, and he didn't get the infrastructure bill. What happened?
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
What happened is that the progressives came out unanimously supporting what was in the framework. They just had to see it, they had to look at the language, which was released on Friday. And now he can say -- he can go to COP, to Glasgow, and say that he has 100% unanimity in the Democratic Caucus in the House. And that is really bringing people together over this agenda. So I think it’s really -- you know, if you had told me, Chuck, that we would be arguing about when exactly the vote was gonna happen, and what the sequence was, rather than what's in it, I would have been surprised. But here we are, so I think --
CHUCK TODD:
But the sequence is not insignificant. I want to put up something: Abigail Spanberger, she’s a Member of Congress in a swing district in Virginia, which has got some elections that people are a little concerned about on the Democratic side, and here's what she said. "Because people choose to be obstructionists, we're not delivering these things to my state or to the rest of the country. I guess we'll just wait because, apparently, failing roads and bridges can just wait in the minds of some people."
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
Something tells me that was before the Progressive Caucus voted unanimously to support the framework.
CHUCK TODD:
She said this on Friday. Here's what they didn't do.
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
And they voted on Friday.
CHUCK TODD:
They didn't pass on Thursday. But --
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
I get it --
CHUCK TODD:
-- Speaker Pelosi asked them to do this. The President didn't. Why?
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
Because the president respects Speaker Pelosi and her caucus and the dynamics that she's got to navigate. But, honestly, the fact that you've got so many people in support -- and Chuck one of the things that came out today, there was an Ipsos poll out that said that seven in 10 Americans don't know what's in the framework, what's in the two bills.
CHUCK TODD:
Whose fault is that?
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
Well, that's why it is really important that people understand what is in it. For example, the fact that we have -- I mean, here people pay, on average, $9,000 a year for child care. That's on average. Here, in this area, it's probably more like $20,000 a year. This is going to eliminate that for people. I mean, that's just a huge boost to the bottom lines for people. Preschool -- people pay, on average across the country, $8,600 a year. That's gonna go away. People will be, finally, able to enter back into the workplace, women especially. So this is -- I mean, that's just one component of this. But it a fantastic -- really, for decades and decades we have not seen this kind of investment in our people in our country.
CHUCK TODD:
Look, this is a case where -- I've asked this, were the political eye is bigger than the political stomach when you guys proposed what you did. Because this is a case where you've overpromised and underdelivered. You're talking about the things that are in this bill. Let's talk about what's not in this bill.
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
Why? Why? Why?
CHUCK TODD:
Paid family leave --
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
Yes, but --
CHUCK TODD:
-- and prescription drugs.
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
The fight is not over, though, Chuck. This is not as though we're done and we're gonna go home.
CHUCK TODD:
Right. But what's realistic?
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
This is a compromise. What's amazing is that we will have, between the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill and this framework, we will have $3 trillion investment in our nation that we have not had before. I mean, in my column of remit, which is in energy, the amount of investment that will be for clean technologies that’s putting people to work, and having America lead in this as we go into COP, is amazing.
CHUCK TODD:
Look, you're doing a terrific job of selling what's in it, but the problem is there's a whole bunch of people that have been disappointed --
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
Yes. You don't get everything --
CHUCK TODD:
-- for what's not in it.
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
-- you ask for all the time.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. So let me --
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
This is why compromise -- the president campaigned and said, "Compromise is not a dirty word."
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
No one is --
CHUCK TODD:
But let me tell you something else--
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
-- you are not so unrealistic to think that the president's gonna get everything he wants.
CHUCK TODD:
I understand that. But let me just, on one issue that has giant majorities in support: prescription drug reform.
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
Yes.
CHUCK TODD:
Take a listen to what the president said on the trail.
(START TAPE)
JOE BIDEN:
"Allow Medicare to negotiate drug prices. That'll bring 'em down. We are gonna reduce prescription drug prices, the experts acknowledge, by 60%. Reduce prescription costs by 60%, by allowing Medicare to negotiate with drug prices."
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
Look, most Democrats believe, in Congress, that what doesn't get into this reconciliation bill is just not going to get touched. I know you can say, "oh, maybe there's another bill, maybe there's this." Are you aware of the current climate here in Washington?
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
Well, are you aware that --
CHUCK TODD:
What doesn't get passed now isn't going to make it into another bill.
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
I completely disagree with you. I mean, there are pieces of this that we can actually get Republic -- there are, believe it or not, once in a while, a few Republicans who actually support paid family leave because they want to be pro-family. And so maybe they won't vote for it in this whole big bill, but it's possible to go after pieces of this separately. And later the president's not given up on that. He's not given up on reducing the cost of prescription drugs; it's why he's got so much in this framework to reduce the cost of healthcare for everyday citizens. So this is a really exciting moment for the nation, and we hope that this week we'll be able to see it come to fulfillment.
CHUCK TODD:
Look, you have been a two-term Governor of Michigan. You know politics pretty well. I want to show you some numbers from our poll that show that the last nine months have taken a toll on the perception of President Biden. Just look at these numbers on the issue of "knowledge and experience," he's fallen double-digit points; "ability to handle a crisis," right there on your monitor; "competent and effective," that has dropped ten points since the start. This has taken a toll on his presidency. How do you make sure this is only a bruise, and not a scar?
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
Pass this bill. Once people will see this, I mean, they'll see that they're going to get a continuation of that Child Tax Credit. They'll see people being put to work in clean energy all across this country. They're going to see the ability to have their senior citizens and people with disabilities being cared for in their homes. They'll see their costs of living come down as a result of having children. It is just -- this, to me, this bill and the real impacts that people will see, will have an impact on those ratings. And you know what? The president is focused on the middle class and the working class. And once they see that they don't have to pay one dime for it, if you make less than $400,00 a year, and they get the benefits, we're starting to rewrite this income inequality that has been plaguing this country and really held us back.
CHUCK TODD:
The economy is actually one of the things that I think is dragging down the president, here. People feel as if everything costs more. Something that's in your bailiwick is gas prices.
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
Yep.
CHUCK TODD:
You had talked about releasing some oil from the Strategic Oil Reserve to see if we can bring down the cost. Is that something you guys are thinking about? Because gas has risen, I think, a dollar since you took office --
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
-- from January to now.
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
Of course.
CHUCK TODD:
We got a problem.
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
And the gas prices, the fuel prices, are in the same boat as --
CHUCK TODD:
And winter --
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
-- the supply chain, et cetera.
CHUCK TODD:
-- and winter is coming.
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
Of course. And the president is really focused on making sure that people are not hurt at the pump. Which is why the American Rescue Plan, for example, had a significant increase in low-income heating and protections for home, et. cetera. Gas prices, of course, are based upon a global oil market. That oil market is controlled by a cartel. That cartel is OPEC. OPEC controls more than 50% of the petroleum supply and more than 90% of the petroleum reserves. So that cartel has more say about what is going on. Now, on top of it, you've got an oil and gas industry that can't flip the switch after coming out of a pandemic in the same way that you're seeing with the supply chains. The president really is focused on making sure that people have relief, and he's looking at all of his tools. But let me just say one thing: that these rising fuel prices in fossil fuels tell us why we've got to double down on diversifying our fuel supply to go for clean.
CHUCK TODD:
But is this something you guys may do before the end of the year?
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
I'll let the president make that decision and make that announcement.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay, you seemed to float it, and then it was sort of pulled back. Do you know?
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
Well, I was saying there's a series of tools that he has. The tools are limited because it is a global market.
CHUCK TODD:
Gotcha.
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
But that's a tool and I'll let him make a decision. And let me just say the Energy Information Agency has said that by -- projected again, it's very volatile. But they said that by the beginning of December, the prices should come down, for at the pump, to $3.05. We'll see if that actually happens. But they're the best objective data that we have.
CHUCK TODD:
You've been all about bending a curve, that would be a nice curve to bend, as well, I think --
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
It would be.
CHUCK TODD:
-- for a lot of people.
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
It would be, I'm pretty sure.
CHUCK TODD:
Secretary Granholm, I appreciate your coming on --
SEC. JENNIFER GRANHOLM:
You bet.
CHUCK TODD:
-- and sharing your perspective there. Good to see you.
CHUCK TODD:
President Biden's sinking approval rating is threatening to pull down the poll numbers of Democratic candidates heading into Tuesday's elections. Virginia's off-year gubernatorial elections have often been a pretty good barometer for the upcoming midterms. And right now, the Democratic candidate, former Governor Terry McAuliffe has seen this largely devolve into a tossup territory. And Governor McAuliffe joins me now. Governor, welcome back to Meet the Press.
TERRY McAULIFFE:
Chuck, great to be back with you.
CHUCK TODD:
And I do want to make a note that we also asked Governor McAuliffe's Republican opponent Glenn Youngkin to appear. His campaign declined that invitation. Governor, I want to start with an excerpt from this debate that I was moderating at that had one line clipped out. You have said it's out of context. I want to play the exchange more fully and ask you about it on the other side. Here it is:
[BEGIN TAPE]
TERRY McAULIFFE:
Parents had the right to veto bills, veto books, Glenn, not to be knowledge about it, also take them off of shelves. And I'm not going to let parents come into schools and actually take books out and make their own decision.
GLENN YOUNGKIN:
You vetoed it.
TERRY McAULIFFE:
So yeah, I --
GLENN YOUNGKIN:
So you stopped parents. You vetoed it.
TERRY McAULIFFE::
-- stopped the bill that I don't think parents should be telling schools what they should teach.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
So Governor, what about that that you feel as if you were taken out of context? Do you feel as if everything you said there should reassure parents that they have some say in their kids' schooling?
TERRY McAULIFFE:
Listen, that was about a bill I vetoed, which people were very happy that I vetoed the bill that literally parents could take books out of the curriculum. You know, I love Millie and Jack McAuliffe, my parents, but they should not have been picking my math or science book. We have experts who actually do that. And look what happened. He is closing his campaign on banning books. It's created a controversy all over the country. He wants to ban Toni Morrison's book Beloved. So he's going after one of the most preeminent African American female writers in American history, won the Nobel Prize, has a Presidential Medal of Freedom, and he wants her books banned. Now, of all the hundreds of books you could look at, why did you pick the one Black female author? Why did you do it? He's ending his campaign on a racist dog whistle, just like he started the campaign when he talks about election integrity. But Chuck, we have a great school system in Virginia. Dorothy and I have raised our five children. Of course parents are involved in it. The question should be could an extreme Republican bill that would allow parents to take books off of shelves, should that be left in the hands of parents or should it be left to the school boards and others who do this every single day and focus on it?
CHUCK TODD:
They would argue that bill is not saying --
TERRY McAULIFFE:
And as you saw in the crowd, everybody clapped when I said it.
CHUCK TODD:
I understand that. But they would say this is not about banning a book, this is about informing parents that a book may have some material that not all parents will be crazy about. We should let you know that your kid is going to be dealing with this material. Is that out of bounds?
TERRY McAULIFFE:
That's not out of bounds. But if you look at what the bill would be, it ultimately would've led to books being removed from our classrooms. And as they say, we're the fourth-best school education system in the country, our K-12 system. We're great. You look at my plan, I'm going to raise teacher pay. I'm going to get children pre-K education, those at-risk three- and four-year-olds. I'm going to get everybody access to broadband. What's Glenn Youngkin's education plan? He wants to ban critical race theory. Well, let me explain to you, it's never been taught in Virginia. Number two, he says he wants to, day one, all masks come off and no teachers get vaccinated. Well, that's life-threatening. We have 1,142 children who have been in a hospital here in Virginia. Two 11-year-olds just died the other day from Covid. He doesn't have an education plan. He's got a Donald Trump, Betsy DeVos, take money out of public schools, put it into private schools. That doesn't work in Virginia. And that's why parents supported me when I vetoed that bill. And I am the one who has the plan to move our education system forward.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, if you look at the Washington Post-Schar School poll, on the issue of education --
TERRY McAULIFFE:
Sure.
CHUCK TODD:
-- it looks like they have successfully redefined it and have made it the top-issue concern among a list of issues. It's now topped the economy and Covid. Two months ago, that was not the case. Is this a case where they've successfully created an issue in this campaign and you're having to struggle to react to it?
TERRY McAULIFFE:
Well, as you see I'm still leading on education because people know I put a record investment last time. I got rid of five SOLs. I redesigned our high schools. People trust me on education. But it's at the forefront here in Virginia as it now is in others. You see what's happened in Georgia and Florida because they're talking about this critical race theory. And as I said before and I'll say it again, it's never been taught in Virginia. I really hate it because it's a racist dog whistle. And all Glenn Youngkin has done in this campaign is run down Virginia, run down our education system, run down our economy. And when you think of this right now on critical race theory, Chuck, it's not taught. So all you're doing is pitting parents against parents, parents against teachers, and they're using children as political pawns. I was in Hampton last night.
I met a school board member, said, "Our school boards were fine. As soon as Glenn Youngkin got nominated, all of a sudden these people started showing up creating such a ruckus, calling such obscene things." This was an African American woman. I can't repeat on air what they said about her. This was last night up here in northern Virginia. We just-- listen to this, we just lost a school board member because people are coming into these school boards. She said, "I was getting death threats. But when they said they were going to rape my children, I can't take it anymore." That's what Glenn Youngkin has done here in Virginia. He's created hatred and division just like Donald Trump. And that's why Donald Trump, his final campaign, is going to be for Glenn Youngkin here in Virginia. We don't want Trump.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me --
TERRY McAULIFFE:
We don't want Youngkin. We don't want the hatred and division.
CHUCK TODD:
Governor, on Friday night you were talking up paid family leave and lowering the cost of prescription drugs.
TERRY McAULIFFE:
You bet.
CHUCK TODD:
These are two issues that are not even in the bigger social spending agenda that the president is trying to get Congress to support. I'm just curious, what has this debate done to your campaign? Has it been a bit debilitating?
TERRY McAULIFFE:
People are not -- when I travel around Virginia, people are not asking me about what's going on in Washington. Obviously, everybody would like to see these bills passed. I'd love it as governor to get the $7 billion in roads that we would have here in the commonwealth of Virginia.
But what I get asked about every day, Chuck, is Covid. And I'm running against an anti-vaxxer. As you know, Glenn Youngkin has said, "If you don't want to take it, don't take it." I believe teachers, doctors, nurses, everybody ought to be vaccinated. So Covid is on their mind. The economy is on their mind. As you know, I took over in a crisis before, got us out of it, created 200,000 new jobs. Personal income went up 14%. Unemployment dropped in every city--
CHUCK TODD:
Alright.
TERRY McAULIFFE:
-- and county when I was governor.I've got to do that again because Covid has been so tough. Education, I talk about it every day. We've got to raise teacher pay above the national average.
CHUCK TODD:
OK.
TERRY McAULIFFE:
I love our teachers. Glenn Youngkin continually runs down our teachers.
CHUCK TODD:
Alright.
TERRY McAULIFFE:
Let me tell every teacher, we love you. We thank you. And you have been real heroes during this Covid crisis. And I'm just tired of him running everything down. I'm trying to lift everybody up and that's why so many Republicans have endorsed me.
CHUCK TODD:
OK.
TERRY McAULIFFE:
Bill Kristol, goodness sake, endorsed me.
CHUCK TODD:
Alright.
TERRY McAULIFFE:
I'm a unifier. He's a divider.
CHUCK TODD:
Terry McAuliffe, the Democratic nominee and former governor of Virginia, stay safe on the trail and we'll see you on Tuesday night.
TERRY McAULIFFE:
Go vote.
CHUCK TODD:
Alright. When we come back, President Trump failed in his attempt to use phony voter fraud claims to overturn Joe Biden's election win in Georgia. But how safe will our elections be the next time? Coming up, the man who stopped Mr. Trump, Republican Secretary of State of Georgia, Brad Raffensperger. He joins me next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Brad Raffensperger was hardly a household name as Georgia's Republican Secretary of State, that is until the 2020 presidential election. But quite suddenly, he became a national figure when President Trump made some false claims of vote fraud, and tried -- and failed -- to get Raffensperger to overturn Joe Biden's win in the state. But if Raffensperger loses his reelection bid to Republican Congressman and Trump supporter Jody Hice, it's possible the next attempt to overturn an election in Georgia could succeed. Well, Brad Raffensperger has written a new book. It's called Integrity Counts. And he joins me now. Mr. Raffensperger, welcome back to Meet the Press.
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
Morning, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Well let me start with -- You have a full annotated transcript of the infamous call from President Trump on January 2, the height of his efforts in order to overturn this election. I want to play a specific audio clip that you write about. here it is:
(BEGIN TAPE)
PRES. DONALD TRUMP
That is criminal. You know, that's criminal. Okay. That's another criminal -- That's another of the many criminal events. Many criminal events here. I watched you this morning and you said -- well, there was no criminality. But, I mean, all of this stuff is very dangerous stuff. When you're talking about no criminality, I think it's very dangerous for you to say that.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
Now, in your book you break in after this point because he's talking about some overseas ballots. And you write this: "I felt then and still believe today that this was a threat. Others obviously thought so too because some of Trump's more radical followers have responded as if it was their duty to carry out this threat. That's a big charge. You felt that he was threatening you with what?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
Well, at that time I thought he may still have believed that he actually won the race. But we had run down every single allegation that was made. He said there were 10,000 dead people. There were less than five. He said that there were thousands of felons and there were less than 74. He said there were 66,000 underage voters. There were zero. And so you run down every single rabbit trail, none of it ever was supported by the facts. And so I was never concerned from the standpoint of that, but I heard the threat that he was making. And then obviously when he called me an enemy of the people, that just ginned up his crowd. And I responded to that in my book saying I would never really not follow the Constitution, not follow the law. I love my nation. My dad raised us to be patriotic Americans and that's what I am.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, at another point in the call the president said, "There's nothing wrong with you saying that you're recalculated." And you wrote in this book that, "Essentially the president was asking me to do something that I knew was wrong." You mean he was asking you to break the law, right? He was asking you to commit a crime.
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
Well, there's nothing to recalculate because if you look at the numbers, the numbers are the numbers. And so you can slice that, dice that any way you want. But at the end of the day, President Trump came up 11,800 votes short. And I had the numbers. Here are the real facts, though, 28,000 Georgians did not vote for anyone for president of the United States of America in Georgia. They skipped. They didn't vote for Biden. They didn't vote for President Trump. They didn't vote for the libertarian Jo Jorgesen. They just left it blank. And Senator David Perdue got 20,000 more votes in the metropolitan areas of the met-- of metropolitan Atlanta and Athens. And that really tells the big story of why President Trump did not carry the state of Georgia.
CHUCK TODD:
The Fulton County district attorney has been investigating whether the president did break any laws in that phone call to you. Have you -- I know you've turned over documents and various things. Have you been interviewed by investigators? You hadn't the last time we talked. Have you since?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
No, I haven't been. I think she's busy with other matters. She has an awful lot of other cases that she inherited. But we fully complied, sent all the documents that we had, and she actually talked to some of our staff members. So if she wants to interview me, there's a process for that and I will gladly participate in that because I want to make sure that I follow the law, follow the Constitution. And when you get a grand jury summons, you respond to it.
CHUCK TODD:
You believe this investigation is totally -- is very legitimate by the D.A.?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
Well, I'm an engineer, not a lawyer. And so I'll let her follow that process and let her bring it before the people.
CHUCK TODD:
You said that you wouldn't have released the phone call had President Trump not tweeted. That's a little bit disconcerting to some. Here he was asking you to break the law. But you would've kept that private until he tweeted. Why would you have kept that private when a president of the United States asks you to break the law?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
Well, at the time of our conversation I didn't realize it was being recorded. But all of a sudden the next morning that tweet comes out there. And it’s not supported by anything that we had said. And so finally you say, "Enough is enough. You're just making this stuff up or you're misrepresenting what we actually talked about." And so that tape came out there. There's the whole run of the tape. There's one hour and 10 minutes of our conversation. And you can then decide what exactly was said during our conversation. And then in the book --
CHUCK TODD:
You didn't know at the time he was being recorded, but you knew later?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
Not at the present time. No.
CHUCK TODD:
Who did the recording?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
I found out later. It was someone, because we had lawsuits going on and we were actually sued by the Trump campaign, I understood there would be lawyers there. And I treated it like a deposition, and that's I guess how our office felt that it should be treated also, so that everything would be factually recorded so people couldn't spin it up later.
CHUCK TODD:
Have you been contacted or asked to provide any information to the January 6 commission that's in Congress?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
I don’t understand -- That's a complicated question. I know that they're digging into information. I know we gave everything to the Fulton County D.A. But right now I believe that the federal investigation has really been more focused on other people. They've issued subpoenas for other people to come testify and we've not been issued any subpoenas to come testify.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think Jody Hice, if he's the next secretary of state, do you think he will -- would he be able to withstand the pressure from President Trump to overturn an election the way you did?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER
He hasn't shown it so far. In fact, when he showed up on January 6 he voted to certify his race with the same machines, the same ballots that were used in his race. He certified that. And yet for the president's race, he voted not to certify it. And that's a double-minded person. And as a pastor, he really should know better.
CHUCK TODD:
If he's the nominee do you think he can win the general election? Or do you believe that it makes it easier for the Democrats to win?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
Oh, I don't believe he can win statewide at all.
CHUCK TODD:
Brad Raffensperger, are you definitely running for reelection?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
Absolutely.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah? And you're not deterred by the fact that the president has basically decided to make you the fall guy for his inability to win the state of Georgia?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
I talk to a lot of Republicans every day. I talk to people that were Goldwater Republicans, Ronald Reagan Republicans, Bush Republicans, and Trump Republicans, like myself. I voted for the president twice and I also contributed family money to his campaigns. And some, obviously, Trump people are still mad about that. And I get a few people that bust me out. But many others understand that I did my job. I followed the law, I followed the Constitution. And they believe that's the honorable thing to do.
CHUCK TODD:
Brad Raffensperger, it's an interesting book. Folks will take a look. We'll be watching you on the campaign trail. Appreciate you coming on, sharing your perspective with us, sir.
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER:
Thank you. Integrity counts.
CHUCK TODD:
When we come back, Democrats are hoping to pass both the infrastructure and social spending bills on Tuesday. It's likely to be too late for Tuesday's elections. But could it help lift the president's sagging approval ratings? Panel is next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Panel is here: NBC News Chief White House Correspondent Kristen Welker, Republican strategist Brad Todd, Democratic pollster Cornell Belcher and founder of Punchbowl News, Anna Palmer. A little tight with time a little bit, I'll admit. Cornell, I’m gonna -- I want you to kick things off. I want you to react to something about our overall poll here. Peter Hart said something to us in our poll call. He said, "What people voted for was stability and calm," referring to the November 2020 election. "And right now, what they look like they're getting is instability and chaos." How do you explain the president's current --
CORNELL BELCHER:
Well --
CHUCK TODD:
-- tough situation?
CORNELL BELCHER:
Well, it is a tough situation. But right there in your own poll, in your segue in, you talked about it, right? Some of his biggest drops are actually happening among Democrats, right? And some of our internal polling, you know, his approval rating even with African Americans has dropped to levels that, quite frankly, I never saw Obama levels drop to right now. So you do get the sense that some of the big promises that progressives and Democrats were looking for -- you know, and quite frankly that wasn't about necessarily the things that you're debating and arguing. One of the things I try to tell Democrats all the time is that those young people who took to the streets and marched a year ago and then marched to the polls and changed this election for us, they weren't marching for roads and bridges. They were marching for --
CHUCK TODD:
Voting rights.
CORNELL BELCHER:
Yes, for --
CHUCK TODD:
Police reform. Yes.
CORNELL BELCHER:
For justice and racial equality. So we have to act on that.
BRAD TODD:
He's got a purple problem though, Chuck. I mean, the progressives don't accept that elections are won by voters who are purple. And this agenda and this president and the way they've handled things in Congress has not been aimed at the purple part of America. That's what Biden campaigned on. It's just not how he’s governed. And that's why the midterms look bleak for him.
CHUCK TODD:
Look, Kristen, I think this might be the number that matters the most -- and that is his handling of the economy right now. Just 40% approve. This is the wet blanket that is on this. People are upset about the cost of gas right now. And that -- you know, when you hear "inflation," the first thing people think of is, "Well, what's the cost of gas?" Right? And they've all seen it go up.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And that number is just devastating for the president, and the White House knows that that is going to determine his chances for reelection or whether or not Democrats are going to be able to hold on to the House and to the Senate. And Covid also. I mean, that's a big piece of this. But the intransigence that people are seeing, Chuck, I think hangs so heavily over these numbers as well. And the fact that they haven't moved to act on infrastructure -- it might not matter to some of those young voters -- but it does matter to a lot of America. And the fact that they are promising these big investments in childcare and in climate, half a trillion dollars, and there hasn't been action on that. They are looking towards Tuesday to try to get something done. The House says they think they can vote on Tuesday. Does that happen? That remains to be seen. And, by the way, you still have Senators Gillibrand, Murray, others fighting to get paid leave back in the package because that's important to the base.
CHUCK TODD:
Anna, who runs Congress? The reason I ask this is, if I said to you a year ago, Nancy Pelosi says, “We're going to vote on something,” it's usually -- that's done. It's enough. She said it. It didn't happen. President Biden post -- delayed his trip, okay? He didn't make the ask, but it was obvious what he was doing. And the progressives gave him the Heisman.
ANNA PALMER:
Yeah. I mean, I think it's a different dynamic than Speaker Pelosi has ever dealt with before. Typically has had much bigger margins for error, where she can say, "Oh, I don't need the ten, twenty seats.” It's a three-seat majority right now. She needs every single vote that she can get.
And the progressives, I have to say, I think that they have done an extremely effective job because they've had one goal and only one goal, which says, "We want to have an agreement on this reconciliation package, and we'll give you your infrastructure package." And because of that, it's really easy to understand. They've stayed together. And it's just a reflection of how big they are in terms of their ability --
BRAD TODD:
It’s a hostage situation though.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. So, Cornell, let me ask you this though. Is the elected Democrats in Congress farther to the left than the rank-and-file Democratic voter?
CORNELL BELCHER:
Well, no. I don't think --
CHUCK TODD:
You don't think so?
CORNELL BELCHER:
No. Because quite frankly, look, look, you know, what the White House thinks they have is actually they think they're going to get something passed, right? And so you're going to have historic investment in clean air, largest investment in clean energy ever. You're going to have more people insured under health care. You're going to have premiums come down. You could have more afford -- like one million more affordable housing sort of built from this package. There's a lot of progressive stuff within this package. I hope that Democrats aren't their own worst enemies in this process, and that's what it seems like. By the way, all those things are very popular. You talk about sort of the purple middle, all those things in the Build Back Better package is very popular among purple America.
BRAD TODD:
If they were popular, Kyrsten Sinema would be voting for it. And right now, you have the progressives in Congress saying, "We're going to hold hostage the most popular stuff until you do the less popular stuff." And, I mean, you can congratulate the progressives if you want, but they're the Freedom Caucus of the Democratic Party. They’re going to sink the majority willingly.
ANNA PALMER:
I fundamentally disagree. They are not the Freedom Caucus. The Freedom Caucus was trying to take out Republican leadership and kill bills. The progressives are not doing that, and they have had Joe Biden's back on this and they continue to.
BRAD TODD:
The Democrats wanting to pass legislation is no different than a Republican not wanting to pass legislation in keeping with the ideology. Republicans, conservatives don't want to pass legislation. That's a fundamental fact. If it grows government, they don't want to do it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just to add one point though, I think that one of the dynamics that's unfolding right now is frustration among moderate Democrats on Capitol Hill. They don't feel like the White House has a strong enough legislative strategy. To your point, Chuck, the fact that President Biden didn't call for a vote on infrastructure on Thursday. I spoke to some people who said if he'd done that, it's possible he would have gotten it and would have had enough votes to see it pass.
CHUCK TODD:
It was fascinating that Jayapal made that point. I'm sorry, what was the reason he went? I mean, the fact that she hung her hat on that, was that a White House miscalculation or intentional?
ANNA PALMER:
I think that House Democrats in leadership and moderates are very frustrated with this White House, that he didn't make the ask, that he didn't commit to this. And that's why they're trying to push this vote to Tuesday. Because if Terry McAuliffe loses, there is going to be no way that these moderates vote for this.
CHUCK TODD:
This recrimination, by the way, how concerned are you if McAuliffe loses that it becomes a circular finger pointing squad?
CORNELL BELCHER:
Are you --
CHUCK TODD:
Of course --
CORNELL BELCHER:
Are you kidding me?
CHUCK TODD:
We know--
CORNELL BELCHER:
If Terry McAuliffe loses, you know, “Katy, bar the door.” I mean, it's the deluge. Because, look--
CHUCK TODD:
You think it's that catastrophic?
CORNELL BELCHER:
Yes. It's catastrophic, and it’s a panic button. Because the last time a Democrat lost -- and you know this -- the last time a Democrat lost Virginia, we lost 60 seats in this House, right?
BRAD TODD:
2009.
CORNELL BELCHER:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
By the way, it's already become a circular pointing squad.
CHUCK TODD:
It has.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Because you have the White House saying, "Look, if McAuliffe loses, it's not on us." McAuliffe is saying, "Get in a room and figure this out." And I've been speaking to Virginia voters who say they are sick of the intransigence. So it's hard to say that what's happening in Washington won't impact the race.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. I've got to pause it there. That was very lively. We'll pick it up. We're going to pick it up. Quick programming note: Kristen and I are going to anchor an election night special on NBC News Now and on Peacock Tuesday night beginning at 9:00 Eastern. There are elections from coast to coast. We're going to have it all: complete wall-to-wall coverage of the big races around the country. We've got the exit polls. We've got the board. We've got it all. It's election night in America, and NBC News will be there. And speaking of those midterms, when we come back, our new edition of County to County: seven counties that may tell us where those midterm elections are headed. Stick with us.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back Data Download time, and a look ahead to the 2022 midterms. Believe it or not, it's just a year away. This week, we launched our 2022 edition of County to County. We're looking at seven counties in seven states, each representing a key slice to the electorate. By the way, those seven states all have key Senate races in them this year. Over the next year, NBC News reporters are going to report on these counties, which are at the forefront of America's political realignment. Three of those reporters are with us now. We'll start with Ellison Barber. She's in Chattooga County, Georgia, northwest Georgia. It's a rural evangelical community where voters helped Trump's support grow from 2016 to 2020, even as Georgia flipped to blue. Ellison, what are you seeing?
ELLISON BARBER:
Good morning, Chuck. Chattooga County is small town America. Everyone here knows each other. They love high school football. There are church steeples scattered across the skyline. And politically, it's about as red as you can get. Georgia is a newly purple state. If Republicans want to flip a Senate seat, they need to see high turnout in communities just like this. Many people here will tell you they do not trust the election process, but those same people also say they fully intend to vote in the midterm election. Two big issues we keep hearing people mention: abortion and socialism. This is a deeply evangelical community. For many people here, abortion is not just an issue; it is the issue. They also look at things like Covid restrictions, vaccine mandates as something they believe infringes on their freedom. And they worry that it is an example of the country moving towards socialism, something they absolutely do not support. Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Thank you, Ellison. A key question we want to have answered there: Will these voters show up when Trump's name is not on the ballot? Guad Venegas is in Washoe County, Nevada. That's home to Reno, where suburbanites have turned what was once a Republican stronghold more and more blue. Guad, tell us about it.
GUAD VENEGAS:
Good morning, Chuck. Washoe was once a deeply red county. But today, it's a swing county in a swing state. Now, the demographics here have changed significantly, this thanks to a booming economy. Also, Latinos make up 25% of the population. Now, with both a senator and a governor up for reelection, Washoe's diverse and growing community could decide their future Registered voters here are split one third Democrat, one third Republican, and one third non-partisan or other. But the majority of voters that we've spoken to say they vote for the issues and not the party. Now, this is a county that has constantly voted for a Democrat presidential candidate since Barack Obama but at the same time keeps electing a Republican congressman. For all of these reasons, we will be diving into the issues that matter here in Washoe County. Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Bottom line, very hard for Democrats to win a statewide race without carrying Washoe. Thank you, Guad. Finally, Shaquille Brewster. He's in Duval County, Florida. It's one of the last remaining true battleground communities in the country. So, Shaq, the endangered species, the swing county. Tell us about Duval.
SHAQUILLE BREWSTER:
Good morning, Chuck. Well, Duval County — essentially Jacksonville, Florida — is a sprawling suburban area that really is as purple as purple gets. But it wasn't always that way. This is a traditionally Republican stronghold that Democrats flipped in 2018 and President Biden won in 2020. And now it's a source of a major battle between both political parties. Republicans are trying to reverse the trend that they've been seeing, pointing to issues like immigration, inflation, and the labor shortage, hoping that moderate voters will end up coming home. And then Democrats are pointing to Congress and pleading with them to pass President Biden's agenda, saying that inaction could threaten the trends that they've been seeing, especially with the increased population and more diverse population here in this county. Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Thank you, Shaq. And you can see our full County to County kickoff on our news magazine show, Meet the Press Reports. It's available anytime right this second on Peacock. When we come back, one of the biggest issues in Tuesday's elections nationwide, policing and crime, and plenty of mayors' races. Stick with us.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. We've got another impeachment retirement this week, Anna Palmer. It was Adam Kinzinger. And, look, I was skeptical he was ever going to run. And I think he was waiting to be able to use redistricting as the reason. But I want to play a quick excerpt of what he said because this didn't sound like a retirement announcement. Take a listen.
(BEGIN TAPE)
REP. ADAM KINZINGER:
Government for, of, and by the people always prevails. At this moment, that government is the problem. And few have risen to do anything about it. Because in this day, to prevail or survive you must belong to a tribe.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
So retirement announcements usually A) are not on video, and B) don't have that kind of heroic --
(OVERTALK)
CHUCK TODD:
Is he headed to Iowa and New Hampshire yesterday? Or is it tomorrow?
ANNA PALMER:
I mean, clearly has national ambitions. He's not going anywhere. He's young, telegenic. He's really been the kind of response, the foil to Donald Trump. Likes to take that on. Won in 2010. He's a former military veteran. I mean, he has all those things that -- he has a lane here within the Republican Party potentially --
CORNELL BELCHER:
But he's not going to Iowa or New Hampshire as a Republican.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, Brad, I mean, what is the role of Kinzinger -- Trump keeps consolidating and consolidating.
BRAD TODD:
It's the Joe Lieberman role. He's the Joe Lieberman of Republicans. Joe Lieberman --
CHUCK TODD:
What does that mean anymore?
BRAD TODD:
Joe Lieberman became a hero to Republicans, and Democrats drummed him out. Ned Lamont ran against him in the primary. He was forced out by the Democrat primary electorate. Adam Kinzinger is similar: a respected legislator who's seen as someone who's very thoughtful but who's a little bit out of sync with his primary base now. So he's going to go to the new precinct, which is the news media.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I do think despite the heroic music, I think despite the heroic music look, it's former President Trump who was claiming victory. Two down, eight to go. And so I do think it's worth looking at those remaining eight who voted to impeach the president Liz Cheney at the top of the list, Chuck --
CHUCK TODD:
My over/under is five even running. So we'll see. So far, eight are running.
BRAD TODD:
-- Democrats also really used redistricting to go after Adam Kinzinger. He only lives in his district by a mile. 1.6 miles --
CHUCK TODD:
-- they were going to go after him regardless. This is about--
BRAD TODD:
But you're going to see a lot of praise for Adam Kinzinger from Democrats this next week, except no one in the Illinois legislature wanted him to come back.
CHUCK TODD:
That's fair. I want to pivot to the other elections that are on. We've got a lot of mayors' races. And perhaps Minneapolis is the best place to go, Cornell, because it's also got this referendum on what to do with the police. And what's interesting is that this gets into what animated voters, young voters. And you brought up, you know, police reform was one of those things. Minneapolis obviously ground zero considering this is where George Floyd was killed. I want to put up the split inside the Minnesota Democratic Party on this issue. Essentially, getting rid of the police department as they know it, having a department of peace. That doesn't mean there wouldn't be a lot of police officers, maybe — some argue — even more on the street but for different reasons. I'm curious what you make of the split. You have Keith Ellison, Ilhan Omar on one side. And then you have Klobuchar, Smith, the mayor, and the governor on the other side. Where is this police debate?
CORNELL BELCHER:
Well, I think for Democrats it's front and central and for the base of the party. Look, not just African American voters, but you remember the visions, the images from those marches. Those were young white kids as well, right --
CHUCK TODD:
White progressives, yes.
CORNELL BELCHER:
White progressive as well. So common sense police reform is a top-tier issue for the progressive base. And if they don't see Democrats getting something done around this issue, I'm telling you, this issue is not going to go away. Voting rights and police reform are not going to go away.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Chuck, this is going to be an issue in mayoral races all across the country. Cleveland, Buffalo. The contours, I think, of the debate are changing though because you are seeing crime rates increase. And so some of these candidates who were very full throated in wanting to reform police departments are now saying, "Well, let's think more seriously about--"
CORNELL BELCHER:
Reforming a police department doesn't mean disbanding the police, right?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Right.
CORNELL BELCHER:
That's an extremism, and that's something different. I'm involved in the mayor's race in Atlanta. You know what the top issue in Atlanta is right now? Crime. But you've got to balance that sort of reform the police but also make our city safe.
BRAD TODD:
It's part of what's going on in Virginia. You know, in Virginia, a couple large municipalities removed police from schools. It's a big issue in the governor's race. It's a big issue in the attorney general's race. You're going to see this test driven, and you've already seen Terry McAuliffe back off.
CHUCK TODD:
It's going to be fascinating to watch. Terrific panel. You guys came ready to go. I appreciate it. Before we go, I want to remind you of one more promotion here. Tickets are now on sale for the Meet the Press Film Festival at AFI Fest. We're featuring five programs of the best-in-class short documentaries. Some terrific ones this year for sure. Ticket holders can watch virtually or in person on November 11th in Los Angeles. So, yes, we're going to Hollywood. Tickets are available at fest.AFI.com. That's all we have for today. Thank you for watching. And this is a day where we all agree on one thing: everybody should wear a mask tonight. Happy trick-or-treating. We'll be back next week, because if it's Sunday it's Meet the Press.
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